Matt Steffanina breaks down why creators require an online community
From your simple top eight of Myspace to private Facebook Groups and private Facebook Groups, we've all been part of a community using social media. Over the years the platforms for social media have allowed creators to foster flourishing communities in both private as well as through public comment.
However, with a growing laundry list of problems, social media is slacking in the role of a community-building tool and administrator it was once. As a result, creators and business owners across the globe are starting to see the shortcomings for what they are.
The outage on Facebook in 2021 could be the reason behind the initial shift in attitude. A short six-hour period when the platform was down led small businesses and creators alike to lose access to their audience and website traffic, causing widespread revenue loss. Some reported losses of up to $5,000 dollars.
To understand the importance of hosting a community off on social networks, we had a conversation with the master of online communities himself, Matthew Steffanina. Steffanina is an internationally renowned as well as the owner and creator of the DNCR Academy.
Since launching the YouTube channel in 2009, Matt has grown a modest following of over 30 million fans across all platforms. Matt is famous for his dance performances with stars like Taylor Swift, Jason Derulo as well as Meghan Trainer, not to mention the appearances he has made on TV shows such as So You Think You're a Dancer.
Through his YouTube dance videos and live classes, Matt formed a tight-knit group of dancers who were passionate, but after the outbreak of the flu and #IRL classes were halted, YouTube simply wasn't cutting it for a method to connect with his audience or make a profit. Then he resorted towards online training as well as an online community to create a lasting impression on his audience and create an income stream that was sustainable.
Dive into our Q&A interview with Matt to find out how he has grown an extremely successful business as well as online community, and why he believes this is the way to create taking control of their own fate.
Note: The responses are lightly edited for clarity.
We'd like to hear a short introduction to your identity and the things you're doing.
Hello, my name's Matt Steffanina, and I'm a choreographer and music producer in L.A. But the last twelve years of my existence are largely performing and dancing. My career began in the field of in collaboration with musicians, however, at every turn, I was building my YouTube account, sharing videos about my classes, my personal life, and my tours. Basically, following along in a vlog-style. One of the hard things about being a dancer, particularly ten years ago, is that you depended on your agent and the dancers to offer opportunities. There was no way to make yourself a better candidate as an individual dancer. So in my early years I would sit by the phone for an opportunity to be auditioned. At first, YouTube was a way for me to stay productive and keep improving my abilities, as well as to advertise my dance career. I had no idea that it would be able to do what it did. It was a time when I grew about a million users, which in the moment was quite an impressive amount. From it, I ended up getting opportunities working with Ja' Rule and Taylor Swift, and Meghan Trainer.
Another thing I really loved was instructing. In the beginning, I launched a second [YouTube] channel named the Dance Tutorials Live, where individuals could learn to dance. I built a following of dancers all around the globe. What has been the most rewarding part of everything that I've done is hearing the stories of the students' accomplishments. The stories are really crazy as, at the time I was recording tutorials at the local studio with my tripod. I didn't realize that I could make any kind of impact and it's been an interesting journey, to put it mildly.
Did you foresee your YouTube channel evolving into what it is? Do you have plans to bring it to where you are today?
There's no way one could have predicted the way it did. The first time I uploaded a videos, it was from Virginia before I moved into L.A., and I was looking for ways to get inspiration and make connections with fellow dancers. At that time, 14 years ago I was one of the very first dancers to join the platform. I never could have imagined what happened. Today, the channel boasts thirteen million users and 3 billion views. The first time my video went viral, I remember that people were commenting from all over the world, and the concept of someone watching from another nation was a mystery to me. I was apprehensive however, here we are today performing shows across the globe, due to the internet as well as the possibility of getting my dancing out there through the web.
Let us go on a bit of a timeline journey. What blew you up the first time? Did it be your YouTube channel? Did you make it your profession?
People always think that success in the mainstream and Hollywood industry can lead to the success of online advertising, however it actually converts less than one would imagine. The shows I participated in were The Tonight Show, So You Think You Can Dance, The Amazing Race, and more--I received a variety of television shows that are traditional but that actually didn't convert into long-term successes. These were also short-term possibilities, but nevertheless, amazing.
The thing that gave me longevity in my career that I am still doing it over a decade later is establishing a network.
The foundation of the community was my dance lessons, which was not planned, but was the most smart choice I made. Being an outstanding teacher and instructor in this space, and moving a community forward is something that's much more challenging as a dancer. My work in the form of tutorials and teaching others on the web that made me be a part of a community, which is still strong even to this day.
Are you able to take us through the process of starting DNCR Academy? How did you turn it into an actual business?
I created DNCR Academy right at the beginning of the pandemic. It was something I wanted to pursue for quite many years for couple of reasons. It's a platform for subscriptions, which allows dancers to learn tutorials. It's a more upscale experience than my YouTube videos. When I upload content on YouTube the content I upload is] a little inconsistently, and the quality isn't necessarily top-quality. It's not possible to attract lots of guests or instructors. There are a lot of dancers who are enjoying the YouTube tutorials and wanted additional training. This is why I started DNCR Academy for the people that are a little more focused. It allows me to recruit great instructors, such as Bollywood shuffling, shuffling and dancing fitness instructors; styles that I'd never normally perform on my YouTube channel. But on the platform [DNCR Academy] is completely normal and exciting to provide a variety of diverse styles to our students. When COVID first started, I knew I couldn't travel and had enough time to dedicate to this, which is why we waited some time and developed the platform . It was the month of June in 2020. It's been three amazing year. We thought that we had a large community on YouTube, but this took the most powerful of this strong community and put them into a bubble. There is a lot of support for one another. In addition to having this support group that's learning with each other across the globe They also have an emotional support system with people who are challenging on each other. It's just become a really positive thing in my own life, and I think for all the dancers in DNCR also.
Could you provide more information about the community and what drove you to start DNCR? Was the community in existence before the DNCR Academy, or did it develop in conjunction with the Academy? Do you have any idea of it being an important factor in the Academy's success?
I really felt it over COVID. I think a lot of individuals felt the same. It was hard to stay inspired. It was difficult to begin a routine because you're stuck at home and aren't able to access anything. Dance in particular is something that's a communal activity. People do dance on their individual level, but the part that I enjoy about dancing is working in a studio with my fellow dancers and the energy that comes with it. Once that energy is stripped away, it's difficult to get motivated, even for me as choreographer. It was hard for me to find the motivation to keep going, which is why I thought that should I go through this, I'm sure another aspiring dancer is also suffering in the same manner and would benefit from a tight-knit community. The community already existed as a result of the YouTube tutorials, but like I mentioned, there was no consistency. To achieve anything, I believe the number one thing you need [in dancing] is consistency in your dance training. This community has enabled us to hold regular challenges every month, which I think is the best aspect we could have done in the course of DNCR. It's not just uploading tutorials, but it's a focus on one aspect that we're all going to tackle together. The group is working together to perfect this technique and plan to upload our videos within an end date. This is where we got our enthusiasm; it was the joy of seeing all of the other members posting videos and the cool and even constructive feedback which resulted from it. is about being an active participant in the community, and actually helping each other grow and grow. I believe this was the part that was challenging to achieve on YouTube since it felt as if all of us were doing this [the tutorials] on their own. The community allowed everyone to be part of it together, which is a huge change and I believe for me as a choreographer as well as for students to be capable of learning consistently.
Any customer stories from your neighborhood which stand out? What individual in the community have you found memorable?
One of my favorite clients is a man named Ray. He's originally from Washington D. C. He's a lawyer and he started dancing in his 40's. He'd come home each working day with his suit of lawyer and make the table away to allow him to practice his hip-hop dance routines, and then he'd end up dancing with his children. They made a ton of videos, especially over COVID as they learned the dance routines together. He ended up going on the Disney Channel show and winning it. Here's this guy who at 40 years old had never taken a dancing class before and found his love in the dance community, and ended up being one of the most inspirational people for the members of our community. I believe this kind of success is really important to celebrate because I too was a complete stranger to the world. I didn't start dancing until the age of 18, however, the majority of people do not see it; most people today are seeing me performing with stars and on music videos, so it's harder to comprehend the difficulties I had to face early. If you see those who are currently experiencing the journey] with you and see them come out to the other side of this amazing journey-- it's so powerful. And, it really inspired everyone in our community. There are many stories similar to that, but Ray was an exceptional one.
Are you using your social media and community customers to experiment with new ideas or innovative products you're considering for your business?
One of the things that we're working on constantly is helping more people. How do we reach many more people? The community of dancers that are looking to excel at the skill is pretty small, so we want to offer the type of training on the platform that will take someone to an elite level. However, we are also focused in making it affordable for anyone who just wants to master some routines every now and then, or anyone who would like to join a gym and feel comfortable. Additionally, we're working on a wide range of activities with dance fitness. I was an exercise instructor and really believe that dance is one of the best means to keep fit both physically and mentally. We're even starting a wedding class because I receive many requests to create wedding choreographies but I, unfortunately, lack the time to do it and so this course will take the bride through all you have to know. The goal is to make it more accessible to all the requests I've received over the years, where I've always stated that if I had time to do this I'd be awestruck and would help many people. Now we're trying to make the time to offer these courses.
Do you have a high-level walkthrough of what your social media strategy looks like today? What have you changed from when your first appearance on YouTube?
The platform has seen a significant change over the last 10 years, just like the various generations of YouTube as well as social media as a whole. In the beginning there was no competition, so I was only uploading video from my classes. This was all there was. After that, I began to realize the power of video and connections to creators. I decided to start vlogging behind the scenes which was incredibly popular from 2016 to the year the year 2019. We then began to implement more challenges like learning a routine in only ten minutes. These were really successful.
In the year COVID was announced in 2020, we started to see success with TikTok and other short-form media. It was a huge change since then. It is my opinion that a lot of dancers' viewers moved to short form, TikTok in particular, because dancing was so popular there. My videos were still posted on YouTube, but a lot of my strategy focused more on shorter-form content, like 15-second dances, instead of 45- to minute-long dances.
The thing about social media, which people do not know, unless they've been around for several generations of it is that there's not going to be a solution which will work for the rest of time--because no matter what field your expertise is, if you come across something that is effective then eventually everybody other people will follow it. And it's happened in the case of dances. Dance class videos started exploding and social media became saturated with dance teachers posting their classes. Then, I needed to think of my next step, and it became replicated. It's a constant game similar to any other profession of having to reinvent and innovate and develop new and innovative strategies. And, the only method of identifying these ideas that will work is to shoot darts at the board. Most of them will fail and that's why you come up with the concept that everyone really enjoys. It's hard to predict and therefore we follow the premise that, when I come up with some idea I simply go for it. We can try it, and if it does not work then good. Try something different. I think that's the best advice I could give anybody who's trying to make content. Take your time and don't believe that since something did not perform the first time it will not succeed the third or fourth time. Sometimes, you must tweak the idea, shape it and the idea suddenly hits.
It's a good way to get into something we did not discuss that is social media algorithms. How much have algorithms played into your strategy? Did they affect your ability to reach your customers?
If you've used Instagram, I think it's one of the best known. I recall a moment when I was able to publish a flyer for a tour that might receive 100,000, 200,000 likes, and thousands of responses because it was being shown to my 3.9 million Instagram followers. If I had posted the flyer tomorrow, it would probably get just 10% engagementas the algorithm has shifted. You must therefore be creative.
Instead of a flyer this is a video where the dance is happening cities are popping out and users can navigate to the caption to learn more. The trick is come up with different strategies to use the algorithm, because it is the case that at the end the day, it's impossible to manage the algorithm. So we watch many things (metricsregarding time retention. YouTube is shifting from being primarily an online search engine, to becoming being more of a click-through-rate-based platform. Is your title and thumbnail powerful enough to draw people's attention? The title and thumbnail could be one of the best videos in the world however if your title and thumbnail aren't appealing to viewers, your video is going to flop. If people watch the first ten seconds or so of the video, and later move away, YouTube is going to tell you that everybody is loving your thumbnail but your video's not working, so we're not going to present it to your subscribers.' And, that's how algorithms work nowadays. The strategies have become more about concepts. I feel pretty confident that we'll be able to make interesting videos and content but if the video is rapidly learning to perform a certain routine it is possible to find a million possibilities to pack the thumbnail and title, plus the duration of the video as well as its style. All of this can affect the success of your content. My channel was getting 30 million views per video over the course of 2 years. This is absurd. For people who are aware about the monetization issue due to the copyright issue with music, I wasn't able to monetize most of these videos. But when it came to expanding my channel was concerned was concerned, that was stupendous. Things have certainly changed since then particularly because of TikTok and Instagram being the main players in terms of the market share.
Because you mentioned the idea of monetization did that in all impact your desire to start DNCR Academy, or was it just strictly to move offline on the web?
When attention shifted away from YouTube and then to TikTok and Instagram data throughout YouTube dropped, and so my primary method of funding funded my tutorials as well as the entire process, was via and monetization...
During COVID, people wanted more and more [content] however there was not as many monetization opportunities within the channel. It was enough to make it scaleable which is one of the things that made DNCR. Now, we have members who pay an annual fee for membership so that we are able to collect these funds and reinvest them back in new and improved courses and production. It's basically all the things that I wanted to accomplish and for which YouTube did not provide enough revenue to achieve. So it was a powerful option financially to expand the content of my tutorials as well as the platform, and also to provide students the content they asked for.
What can you do to deal with burnout associated with all of social media's producing content?
I don't feel like I'm that old, but in social platforms, I've existed from the beginning of time. It's pretty crazy the number of generations that have passed and gone, and the reason why I believe people are burned out is due to some of the factors. I believe they set their expectations and schedule way too high and heavy at the start. In particular I recall a time around 2016 to the year 2017 when all my buddies decided to create every day Vlogs. And for anyone who has done a daily vlog is a slog. The workload in order to manage editing, filming, and conceiving daily is nearly impossible. My channel has always been with a couple of uploads a week. A level that I was able to manage. I made sure that I traveled. I also ensured that I took breaks. If there wasn't a great song out one week or I wasn't feeling inspired to create choreography, I decided to cancel the class. I was certain that the content creation was something that I could accomplish consistently, and that's helped me maintain my longevity.
One of the things I've implemented to avoid burnout is to set realistic goals for myself. In the beginning, when you're only beginning out, it's better to concentrate on just one of two or three platforms. Keep it simple. On YouTube it's a good idea to upload at least twice per week. After that, you can you can edit that content the content to make it shorter to put on Instagram as well as TikTok. Keep it manageable. It's best to develop slowly, but still have that spark of passion and the determination to keep creating content five to 10 years later. after which you can really push yourself for a few months, you'll burn out and then fall off. The key is being consistent. It's a long-term strategy in spite of the fact that it appears like things are happening in a whirlwind.
Have other tips for creators who want to make use of social media to drive visitors to their site or products, or maybe even starting their own community?
The most important thing is to figure out , if you were the position of your viewer, or customer's shoes, what would motivate you to abandon an online platform and sign up for a subscription model or a course. I think a lot of occasions we are thinking 'I'll just do this and that' and we're thinking of things from our point of view. So I do a lot of polls--I ask my readers very often what course do you hope to take in the near future or which one would you find the most exciting about. There are times when I'm thinking that they want this amazing choreography that is difficult and complicated that they're thinking "Look Bro, I'm just looking for some moves that I could show off at a party. It's saying 'Okay, this week we're going to discover moves that you could try out in a dance party. It's fun to put yourself in their shoes.
It's also about giving value. I think that if you are able to provide value without expecting anything in return, without asking for something in exchange building confidence, trust, and community, when you do offer something that's a paid deal or course it already has that trust. The value you've provided is already there, and made your customers' life so much easier by the services you've offered that they're more than happy to be involved in the process. It's true that sometimes we get caught up in seeking to make a sale too early without building relationships with customers. And that's one of the best things about social media, you have the opportunity to be present with your followers every day regardless of whether you're giving dance tutorials or vlogging your life with them, which in turn, helps build rapport as well as establishing a community. the next thing you know, 'Oh, by the way it's great that you've been enjoying all the things you've done then here's the next step where you go one step further.' That's a really easy transition for people to take instead of getting to know your new followers at the beginning and trying to get them into a group right in the middle of nowhere.
Many creators in the field think that the only option to make cash is to make affiliate-style deals on social media and you've proven them wrong. What do you suggest to young creators about diversifying their income?
Brands and affiliate marketing are one piece in the overall puzzle. The monetization aspect is the other element to the piece. But ideally, you would like to take a piece off of social platforms which also generate source of income because at the end of the day, you never know when the algorithm or the rules alter. This is something I've learned through the years because there have been periods where I made the bulk of my money from YouTube and was getting the bulk of my earnings from live events and touring as well as times where I was making most of my income through TikTok and Instagram as well, and today, it's . At different stages in my professional life, this thing has changed several times. And even if I put all my eggs in one pot, and I was just looking forward to brand partnerships or YouTube to change their algorithms to allow me to make more money, I would have been trapped. were stuck.
Create a community, and begin to move your fans from social networks to a subscription service, such as, which you can control the content and members. It's no longer necessary to depend on an algorithm to serve your community the content you have. The content is available you're in DNCR and the users are able to access it at any time they'd like. It gives the power back to the original creators. Things are changing fast and it's harder to trust the monetization of brands and brand partnerships in the absence of knowing where the social media platforms are going next.
Do you want to share with us the role has been in helping you have control over and control over your destiny as a creator?
It [] allowed us a place to put video content that is safe and the rules remain the same. This is my opinion as the top thing. As I mentioned earlier it was the time where I had 30 million views a video on YouTube. But now, with perhaps MrBeast and a couple of others, it's nearly impossible, even with a channel that has 13 million users. Only a small percentage of them are getting my material. It's vital to, as you're building your community, transfer the subscribers to a place where you are able to connect to them, and also connect to you regularly. On a basic level, things like an email list and a text-based list are excellent however, making them part of a larger community apart from social media platforms is the most powerful means to remain in touch, and also build an income stream that is passive as an artist, particularly if you're using the subscription. This is a fantastic way to not only know that your friends are together in one location that you can talk to your friends, and that they are able to connect with you, but also for the consistent income stream.
What's one tip you'd provide to an entrepreneur who's just beginning in the space?
I'd recommend that you thoroughly research your area. Before you ever upload a single piece of content on TikTok take a look at a month's worth of content on Tiktok. You could plod along and start making stuff, but I see a lot of time wasted because people aren't doing some research before they start. If you love fitness and would like to create an online fitness business, go find the top ten individuals working in this field on social media. Watch ten hours of their videos, and gain a better understanding of the reasons why they work and then develop your strategy for content from there.
It's true that right now there's more information than you've ever been able to access, specifically through YouTube and TikTok The answers are all there. You don't necessarily have to create a new wheel from scratch and do a fitness workout nobody's ever seen before, right? However, you must come up with a method to accomplish something that is unique, with your style and your own voice. And, you can do this by studying people that you love, taking the best things of theirs and incorporating certain of your own ideas creating a content strategy around that. But I think understanding that you must humble yourself to know that you don't know. That's what I'm doing right this moment. Every year, at least I have a couple of days where I act like I don't know anything while I look. What are the kids on TikTok who are just 14 years old and blazing up with a different style that we OGs in the field don't understand? You can argue that one dance is silly or whatever, but there's a reason that people can identify with it. I have to know why it is that I can continue to grow and develop myself creatively, but also for my business. Spending a significant amount of time into the research is important as you develop your strategy for content, and then once you have that strategy, you just have to work hard.
Take control of your future with digital goods
The creation economy is expected to witness a surge of online communities by 2023. Social platforms know this too--and respond to this by developing their own community features.
As Matt mentioned, in order for creators to reach their audience in a powerful way and build the income they desire, they have to take their audiences away from social media.
"Brands and affiliate marketing " are one piece in the whole puzzle. It is also a part of the monetization. It is important to be able to take advantage of platforms on social networks that are also providing an income, since, at the end of the day, you don't know when algorithms or rules will be changed. That's something I've learned over the years because there was a period where I earned the majority of my money via YouTube or TikTok, and now, it's ."
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